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Offline jim gilmore

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balance question
« on: August 13, 2013, 09:49:11 am »
I am a litte confused when it come to the idea od balance...
Warrior classes have never been balanced. They level the fastest do major damage and basically get the best armour earlier in the game.
So if one were to look to balance it I would thnyoujust rework the exp tables, buy trial and error till all classes took about the same time to level.
So without pvp and help each race/class comboe should make level 20 in the same amout of time.

Offline Hurricane Omega

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Re: balance question
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 07:42:24 am »
Getting to level 20 really isn't much of a question unless you angered someone and they are camping you within pvp range.  Unencumbered by multiple deaths, level 20 is quick and easy for any class.  It really starts to make a difference after most all the quests are done around level 35 or 40.

Offline Hierophant

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Re: balance question
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2013, 01:51:07 pm »
Have you ever tried to level up a mage solo?  Compared to a warrior or a witchy it is much more difficult.  I am somewhat ok with that however as mages are much complex and interesting to play at higher level.  That's where the balance is ... not in the speed of exping.

Offline jim gilmore

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Re: balance question
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2013, 04:16:48 pm »
True but I thought the differences in the exp table was to balance their difficuly vs there strengths and it seems to be way out of wack...
a mage is super difficuly and the table is not low enough to balance it

Offline Stalkerr

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Re: balance question
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2013, 03:26:33 am »
The balance in majormud, and the charts ect was designed so that players with equal amounts of exp would be similar in power.  Keep in mind, this balance wasn't very good when it was originally made, and at that time you became a Lord at level 7, and a Master at level 12.  Literally, nothing was added to the game to help balance the game in the latest 40+ trainable levels.  Furthermore, they added things that broke the some of the balance that did exist. 

There are lots and lots of little changes that can be made to help balance things out, and adding them won't take all that much time.  but it still seems pretty difficult to find the time to do so. 

Offline Vitoc

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Re: balance question
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2013, 06:46:58 am »
The balance in majormud, and the charts ect was designed so that players with equal amounts of exp would be similar in power.  Keep in mind, this balance wasn't very good when it was originally made, and at that time you became a Lord at level 7, and a Master at level 12.  Literally, nothing was added to the game to help balance the game in the latest 40+ trainable levels.  Furthermore, they added things that broke the some of the balance that did exist. 

There are lots and lots of little changes that can be made to help balance things out, and adding them won't take all that much time.  but it still seems pretty difficult to find the time to do so.
That's good and all, but I haven't seen any more suggestions from you since our last update to the combat formulas (formulae?).

I'm too far removed to make my own suggestions at this point.  Work is kicking my ass.


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Offline Stalkerr

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Re: balance question
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2013, 12:39:01 pm »
That's good and all, but I haven't seen any more suggestions from you since our last update to the combat formulas (formulae?).

I'm too far removed to make my own suggestions at this point.  Work is kicking my ass.

Well, thats not exactly true.  There were a couple small changes I wanted to make to what we had done then a pretty significant database change centered around spell changes.  I'm pretty sure I mentioned that a couple time.

Offline Vitoc

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Re: balance question
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 01:08:38 pm »
Well, thats not exactly true.  There were a couple small changes I wanted to make to what we had done then a pretty significant database change centered around spell changes.  I'm pretty sure I mentioned that a couple time.
Can you please point me to that?  I'll take a look.


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Offline Stalkerr

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Re: balance question
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 03:08:26 pm »
Can you please point me to that?  I'll take a look.
There were alot of posts about it...http://www.greatermud.com/forums/index.php?topic=4419.0 was the link I gave you over IM.  The vast majority of it was discussed over IM between 4-15 and 4-30(maybe a few days past 4-30, but that convo session started on 4-30 according to my log).  I sent you messages here and there throughout may, but never got a response, I assume thats why I dropped it.. I've got everything that I wanted to change saved but since there has been such an extended testing time for the last patch at this point if we could work on it some more, I'd probably want to see what feedback looks like now.

Offline Xeeg

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Re: balance question
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2013, 01:25:51 pm »
One aspect of the balance problem that hasn't really been addressed is the map balance. It is no question that having high ac and large hitting bashes stomps face at the beginning, but part of the problem throughout the game is that there simply aren't enough COMPARABLE areas for SOLO casters and sneakers.

In addition to working on balancing the characters, why not give some of the current monsters more exp and tailor their areas to the different class abilities.

Compare Orc Mansion with Orc Barracks, and honestly think about map balance. The Orc Mansion is basically useless and cannot come even close to the exp rates of orc barracks, EVEN THOUGH they are essentially the same monster.

Notice that the elite orc guards have higher ac? This should signal it as a caster/backstabber/hybrid place over that of a pure melee.
Notice how their exp value and cash drops are similar to barracks? You would think that their AREA should have an equivalent exp rate.

Solution?
Calculate exp rate/cash rate at barracks for equivalent melee fighter.
Calculate exp rate/cash rate at orc mansion for equivalent "caster/bser/hybrid".
Then add rooms, respawn schemes (1 per room for bsers), bonus exp and cash as required to get them similar in rates for equivalent level. Give them less overall damage to balance out resting times for low AC characters.

Voila, you suddenly have a spot in early game that casters can use just like plates can use orc barracks.

On the other hand, you could alter areas that are traditionally the "goto spots" for plate wearers... Alter some of the attacks to make areas not so plate friendly. Reduce the exp potential of their favourite spots etc.

The main problem with this proposal is that it would require a lot of work. An unbelievable amount of work.

However it would address part of the core problem with this game that has long been accepted as "just the way it is".

Offline Greater

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Re: balance question
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 02:54:28 pm »
I've been a huge proponent for awhile now of redoing badly tuned and/or underused old areas.

The main problem with this proposal is that it would require a lot of work. An unbelievable amount of work.

There are at least a handful of us who have expressed willingness to do this kind of editing work. The problem isn't the amount of work or willing hands, it's that the devs seem pretty reluctant to let anyone help.