The Official GreaterMUD Forums

GreaterMUD Discussion => GreaterMUD => Topic started by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Jan 27, 2017, 08:41 PM

Title: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Jan 27, 2017, 08:41 PM
?   Rangers
        o   Reduced to 220% exp
        o   Regeneration moved ?back? to Druid-1 (available to Rangers)
        o   Stoneskin moved to Druid-1 (available to Rangers)

?   Thieves
        o   Class Stealth +20
        o   Tracking
        o   Picklocks +10
        o   BS Min +5 / Max +10
        o   Increased to Combat 3
        o   100% Exp Chart
        o   Combat-3
        o   ShadowHome (to be added)

?   Gypsy
        o   Combat 3
        o   190% Exp Chart
        o   ShadowHome (to be added)

?   Missionary
        o   Combat 3
        o   190% Exp Chart
        o   ShadowHome (to be added)

?   Bard:
        o   200% Exp Chart

?   RCOL/RFIR are now stackable for mage/druid

?   Priestly Items
        o   Protection from Evil and Holy Aura are no longer stackable
        o   Sacred Bastion and Hellfire Shield set to provide a standard +20 AC and +5 DR
        o   Large Silvery Cross and Copper Cross properly set to negate Nebo Secondary, but not Necromantic Bolt

?   Orfeo Shop set to 275% markup

?   Rod of Might set to all alignments (was neutral only)

?   Quarterstaff set to Mage/Mystic usable

?   Sheriff Lionheart no longer charmable

?   Silver Casket from Delf Queen fixed to not self-destroy on cleanup

?   Blackwood Staff drain reduced from 99% to 50%

?   Reduce Goru/Beholder Rgen times
        o   Goru reduced to 200K Exp, 4 hour regen
        o   Beholder 150K Exp, 4 hour regen

?   Dwarven Guards/Royal Soldiers changed to neutral and stripped of summon spell

?   Thrag Heart drop rate increased to 50%

?   Minotaur Champ/Chest rgen timers changed to 24 hours
        o   Dropped items sell prices adjusted to 16% of former value

?   Effects of FRAIL in Mod-9 reduced to a more manageable level

?   Titan spell shop adjusted to 3 max with 15% rgen for each spell

?   Eye of the Beholder ILLU spell value altered from 9999 to 999

?   Serpent Scourge altered to 1H-Blunt weapon (from 2H-Sharp) and increased from Mag-1 to Mag-2

?   Katana, Daikatana, Hellblade and Deathcoil drop rates increased to 25%

?   Runic Warhammer moved to Mag-3 to provide more choices for Mag-3 Blunt pre-level 30

?   Reduction in DR for Chain/Scale/Plate Armors (tentative)

?   Banshee wail reduced from 80 rounds to 20 rounds

?   SLEP/STUN/SAND
        o   SLEP: @15:  60-70% - 1 RD    @30:  60-100% - 2 Rds
        o   STUN: @15: 60-71% - 1 RD    @30:  60-95% - 2 Rds
        o   QUAK: Made ?HOLD? portion resistable, and decreased from 4 to 2 rds
        o   Sandstorm: Reduced from Max of 30 Rds to Max of 15 Rds

?   Set racial stats to GMud standard

?   Black Fortress:
        o   Key bosses set to 18 hour rgen
        o   Blood Champ set to 20 hour rgen

?   4th Quest ? Level 40, 40M exp

?   Reduce Other Side Quests
        o   Appy Quest ? Level 25, 2M exp
                o   Appy Quest set so all questing persons in room receive item
        o      Adult Red Dragon ? Level 35 Quest, 5M exp
                o   ARD Regen decreased to 15 hours
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Blake on Jan 27, 2017, 11:25 PM
My suggestions for slowing down the changes.  This won't be the final decision, there will be a gmud reset after this.

Rangers: leave Stoneskin as is.

Thieves: Combat 2; 80% exp chart

Gypsy: Combat 2

Missy: Combat 2

Blackwood Staff: Leave as is.  It isn't that valuable a weapon compared to room spells.  Not sure why this was included.

Monster Timers:  Leave as is.  I get we are trying to discourage an AR run, increase quests completed, etc, but the best sudden encounters/pvp come while everyone wants those.  This is for every monster you've suggested changing timers.

Slep/Stun/Sand: No change.

Quests that give exp: No change or only a 20% decrease.  These are tough things to do that usually take a big party to complete - let's not make them nearly worthless.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: cytrik on Jan 28, 2017, 10:44 PM
Why does a thief get tracking? What makes a thief have the ability to track people?
There seems to be a big push for fixing thief's... They are and always will be a pretty crap class... And their exp table reflects this.
They appear to be getting closer to the ninja... who can't wear leather. Increase combat, tracking ability, heavier BS attacks... Just add some extra crits in there and it's a leather wearing ninja with a greatly reduced exp table.
If you really want to retain the ability to break into vaults, I would suggest adding higher picklocks to the ninja class/cloak and removing the thief class altogether.
Noone really likes the class, and instead of making it a mirror of another class, just remove them.
Unless you actually add in a proper ability to steal other players items or from NPC's, they really have no use. And this would not apply to the PVE realm anyway.
Stone skin on a ranger is a bit overkill.
Can someone explain to me the what 'shadowhome' means?
rfir/rcol stackable makes no sense either... how do you cast a spell that resists fire, then cast another that resists cold and have them both on you...
This seems like another change just for 1 mission at level 10... Just carry a buttload of potions like everyone else does, and drag, attack, rest, go again.
It's worked for every other mage that's gone through the crypt... why it's so hard I don't know.
The nerfing of quest exp is a rather distasteful idea also... If you complete the quest at the level it's designed for with like leveled characters it provides a big enough challenge that it's worth the exp. Getting to DP in a non-goto realm at level 40 after taking out AED is ridiculously hard.
All I see this doing is trying to lower people from getting power-leveled quicker... which if that's the case, it's not going to stop them getting dragged behind a high end player for large exp over night instead.
If you look at the game dynamics through the eyes of a solo player completing these quests as they are meant to be, trying to find a group of similarly leveled people to take down these bosses, then the exp level is completely warranted.

With all these changes is there any suggestions on how to make neutral not pointless? Across basically all classes?
Priest neutral doesn't even have a high level armour spell and lack any form of prev/prgd spells.
There is no incentive to stay neutral across the realm... And with one of the hardest 5th quests it's basically avoided.

Not sure what the blackwood staff change was for either... it's a mid level weapon that is only useful to a small portion of players and it's definitely not overpowered.

Has anything been suggested about the beholder fear? Where he can cast it so often that you are basically stuck there forever unless you are really lucky?
The same with the willow's sleep? Basilisk's petrify? (Which can be negated by a mirror, but shouldn't be so strong/often.)

There's probably other stuff, but I've only just seen these posts and was not aware of the discussions about the changes.

Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Chupon on Jan 29, 2017, 07:19 PM
Agree with the 2 posts above.
Blackwood staff is not overpowered, if anything it's underpowered.
Very low dmg range, evil only, only magic 3.
It's a great weapon for a short time for a very limited niche and it's great for that niche.
But there is no reason to nerf it. It gives evil casters an option besides rooming and it's not even close to as good as rooming.

My Suggestion:
Focus on fixing stuff that is clearly unbalanced, such as the low exp on blackwood mobs, volcano mobs etc. (everything in the main blackwood area) vs other mobs in mod 7 etc that basically
make the main blackwood forest a waste to exp in.
Also diamond mine demonlings(very undervalued exp-wise) and Gnaj (Needs more lairs, and a lot more exp/kill)
Also making lairs in deep jungle like I did on my bbs in the past made it a very good script area. There can be lots of areas that benefit from lair modification, that is what is really
needed for a big realm like greatermud.
Also I see why you would want to make rod of might more useful but it's really the only option that is neutral only. Why not just add more neutral only items that are badass to the game vs letting other specs use the only neutral only item. Neutral is a pain in the ass and it has almost no good benefit of having to manage eps to stay neutral, it needs to have more good items not less.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Jan 30, 2017, 06:28 AM
Quote from: Chupon on Jan 29, 2017, 07:19 PM
Agree with the 2 posts above.
Blackwood staff is not overpowered, if anything it's underpowered.
Very low dmg range, evil only, only magic 3.
It's a great weapon for a short time for a very limited niche and it's great for that niche.
But there is no reason to nerf it. It gives evil casters an option besides rooming and it's not even close to as good as rooming.

Noted...let me talk to the team and we will re-visit this.

QuoteMy Suggestion:
Focus on fixing stuff that is clearly unbalanced, such as the low exp on blackwood mobs, volcano mobs etc. (everything in the main blackwood area) vs other mobs in mod 7 etc that basically make the main blackwood forest a waste to exp in.

Already on balancing the whole Mod-9 area and making worthwhile as a scripting location.  No intention of altering those areas which are already heavily used (ie webbed lairs, gremlins, etc)

Quote
Also diamond mine demonlings(very undervalued exp-wise) and Gnaj (Needs more lairs, and a lot more exp/kill)
Also making lairs in deep jungle like I did on my bbs in the past made it a very good script area. There can be lots of areas that benefit from lair modification, that is what is really needed for a big realm like greatermud.

Also will be looking at the dwarven mines for lair updates. Stay tuned for further updates on this.

QuoteAlso I see why you would want to make rod of might more useful but it's really the only option that is neutral only. Why not just add more neutral only items that are badass to the game vs letting other specs use the only neutral only item. Neutral is a pain in the ass and it has almost no good benefit of having to manage eps to stay neutral, it needs to have more good items not less.

As a player that always run neutral characters, i whole-heartedly agree.  The team voted to open the rod of might up, but we can re-visit this again. 

Also, to respond to the earlier post, I wasn't a huge fan of reducing the ARD quest exp since it's such an impossible quest to complete.  However, the team felt the 35M boost allowed you to skip through up to 6 levels, depending on your class.  Again, we can re-visit the quest nerfs and will post an update here.

Please keep the ideas coming so we can make the PVE realm the best around!

Bane
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Jan 30, 2017, 05:09 PM
Just a few suggestions or ideas.

Some items that have little to no use could be improved, have their sources moved or tweaked, and used to fill gaps in gear coverage for alignment/class groupings:

templar greatsword (currently only useful as a gear recovery weapon when magic 5 is needed)
red dragonscale whip (extremely slow and only hit magic 1)
red dragon tail
twin shortswords
skull wand
platinum greatsword
two-headed morningstar
fluked trident
elven war-spear
kusari-gama
khopesh sword
heavy bone mace
cat-o-nine-tails
adamantite spear
beastly claws
malachite ring
onyx earrings
amethyst pendant
arcane tome
battlehorn
black rose
Crest of Arlysia
curved fang
diamond-studded ring (perhaps at least as many uses as pine wand?)
high-necked robes
red chitin armor suit (this armor isn't good enough for the effort required to make it)
shadow bracelet
spider silk robes

These potions could be made to have usable effects:

crimson potion
frothing pink potion
white potion
yellow potion (467)

These monsters award disproportionately low experience compared to their difficulty:

ancestral guardian
dark-elf mage
dark-elf warlock
nanati sorceress
abomination (caves of chaos)
Gnaj the Creator
gnaj golem
gnaj zombie
green demonling (950-951)
blue demonling
red demonling (953)
darken beast
canimera
sea hag
vampire minion
vampire acolyte
vampire magus
vampire elder
spiked juggernaut
fanged demon
wraith knight
fire knight
giant efreeti
dread planewalker (903, 779)
wolfman
bone warrior (dying fields 827, 925, 926, 927, 1007)
wererat plague-crafter
crane spirit
gorilla spirit
monkey spirit
massive fanged spider
aged earth dragon (649)

Some areas that are underused and could be improved to be usable:

Undermountain Caverns
Diamond Mines - including Malivek section
Old Mines
South half of Mermex/Stone Tunnels
Deep Jungle
Sandy Beach - near reef
Rocky Cliffs - between beach and jungle
Black Caves
Hilltop Fortress
Silver Mines
Gold Mines
Dark elf Royal Prison
Wererat Castle
Arlysia Library

Quality of life changes:
Traps classes being able to disarm the jungle bridge trap (like MajorMUD)
Fix room spell messages to fire once instead of once for every monster that dies


















Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Chupon on Jan 30, 2017, 08:33 PM
Good suggestions.
To add a few areas to add lairs to  be more usable:
Anthill (no lairs)
Deep jungle (whipvine lairs, moss zombie/tasloi scout lairs)
Smugglers (not enough lairs, no single lairs, could use them)
Add a gelatinous cube section to labyrinth
Mossy Cave(place with night hag) low amount of lairs
Huorn lairs needed in dying grove
Tunnels on the way to black orc boss could use lairs
Kobolds have very long lair times (could use a few more lairs/faster)
Treetops Area between gibbering mage/priest and barren hills could use some fast respawn of tasloi scout, or a few big aoe nuke-able rooms
Serpentkin Village (slow respawns not many lairs normally, could use some)
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Feb 01, 2017, 02:50 PM
Quote from: Chupon on Jan 30, 2017, 08:33 PM
Good suggestions.
To add a few areas to add lairs to  be more usable:
Anthill (no lairs)
Deep jungle (whipvine lairs, moss zombie/tasloi scout lairs)
Smugglers (not enough lairs, no single lairs, could use them)
Add a gelatinous cube section to labyrinth
Mossy Cave(place with night hag) low amount of lairs
Huorn lairs needed in dying grove
Tunnels on the way to black orc boss could use lairs
Kobolds have very long lair times (could use a few more lairs/faster)
Treetops Area between gibbering mage/priest and barren hills could use some fast respawn of tasloi scout, or a few big aoe nuke-able rooms
Serpentkin Village (slow respawns not many lairs normally, could use some)

So, once we get done with the PVE realm, we'll start with lair updates on the PVP side, and go from there.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: mr sinister on Feb 01, 2017, 02:58 PM
you give thief tracking and shadowrest and combat 3 for a mere 20% increase in the exp table?
why would thief have tracking seriously
its the entire reason a lot of people go nekojin
and that is a 50% increase just to get the tracking
it seems like what you want to do it have % for each skill you want and you can just build you own class
BUT that wouldnt be majormud
i know going through majormud with NMR is super fun, we have all done it
all classes are not equal
they each have different playing styles
i dont get what the concern is about equalizing the classes
if you want to make MOD10 then just do it already but add some actual content and not just litter the game with easter eggs
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Feb 01, 2017, 04:27 PM
Quote from: mr sinister on Feb 01, 2017, 02:58 PM
you give thief tracking and shadowrest and combat 3 for a mere 20% increase in the exp table?
why would thief have tracking seriously
its the entire reason a lot of people go nekojin
and that is a 50% increase just to get the tracking
it seems like what you want to do it have % for each skill you want and you can just build you own class
BUT that wouldnt be majormud
i know going through majormud with NMR is super fun, we have all done it
all classes are not equal
they each have different playing styles
i dont get what the concern is about equalizing the classes
if you want to make MOD10 then just do it already but add some actual content and not just litter the game with easter eggs

Great input, we'll take it all under consideration.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: cytrik on Feb 02, 2017, 02:56 AM
Pretty much what I was trying to say, but you apparently said it better.

Quoteyou give thief tracking and shadowrest and combat 3 for a mere 20% increase in the exp table?
why would thief have tracking seriously
its the entire reason a lot of people go nekojin
and that is a 50% increase just to get the tracking
it seems like what you want to do it have % for each skill you want and you can just build you own class
BUT that wouldnt be majormud
i know going through majormud with NMR is super fun, we have all done it
all classes are not equal
they each have different playing styles
i dont get what the concern is about equalizing the classes
if you want to make MOD10 then just do it already but add some actual content and not just litter the game with easter eggs
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: xian on Feb 11, 2017, 04:10 PM
It has probably been mentioned in one of these threads, but intoeuld br great to make cyclops, serpinkin, and the rest of under black house worth something.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Feb 12, 2017, 11:08 AM
Quote from: xian on Feb 11, 2017, 04:10 PM
It has probably been mentioned in one of these threads, but intoeuld br great to make cyclops, serpinkin, and the rest of under black house worth something.

These areas have already been upgraded. Will post changes soon.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Vile on Feb 13, 2017, 07:56 PM
Changes in the original post look great. Are these in the game now?
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Feb 16, 2017, 01:25 PM
No, none of these changes have been incorporated into the playing realm yet.  Once we get done with all changes/updates, they will be play tested, then pushed to the PVE realm. 
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Vile on Feb 16, 2017, 09:29 PM
Awesome sounds good. Any ETA at this stage? Need any testers?
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Feb 18, 2017, 08:18 AM
Quote from: Vile on Feb 16, 2017, 09:29 PM
Awesome sounds good. Any ETA at this stage? Need any testers?

Vitoc's going to open a testing realm which will most likely be open to all.  I'll post info here as applicable.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Kakashi on Mar 04, 2017, 11:54 PM
I am not sure if I missed this or not, but how come Warlocks are not being addressed in any of the changes?

If gypsies and missionaries are getting combat 3, doesn't it make sense to give warlocks combat 4?  What would be the point of EVER being a warlock if gypsy gets the combat boost?  The only trade left is leather/sneak/bs/picklocks/etc for chainmail. 

Thoughts?
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 05, 2017, 03:22 PM
Warlocks are being visited.  Some of the things we've done thus far include changing the red enameled scalemail to chainmail so warlocks can wear it.  We've also reduced the exp chart to 150%, and boosted them to 5-8 hp's per level.  We're still considering how to make warlock's more playable, so there will be further changes coming.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Kakashi on Mar 05, 2017, 08:49 PM
Ahh cool!  Glad to hear that.

I certainly do not consider myself an authority in any way, shape, or form, however here are my thoughts on the subject.  Please feel free to offer your opinions on mine:

1) I definitely like the increase in HP
2) I like the reduction of EXP chart however, I think the EXP COULD stay at 185% but only if they had other boosts
3) changing red enameled scalemail to chain seems like it might only address the warlock at higher levels. Also, for the record, I like that warlocks are chainmail.  Not only is it the only class that uses chain, but i dont think they should have plate or scale based on lore reasons.

Here are some thoughts on a few potential ideas, with justification:
1) give them combat 4. I Know a lot of people want to resist this idea, but if you think about it, both DRUID and PRIEST magics have a class with combat 4.  You might say that it is because they have priest/druid-1., but warlocks get mage-2. My response to that is easy:  as far as non-pure magic classes go, non-pure mage is def the weakest.  No heals, no cures, no healing rate, limited, similar combat, etc..

2) I always kind of thought warlocks as a "mage warrior" or "death knight" etc.  With that said, it might be cool if warlocks had a few new spells that "imbue" magics into their weapons. The spell could give bonuses to their wep.  Maybe added elemental damage (ice, fire, lightning, earth, etc). Or maybe it could apply slows, or blinds, etc.  It would have to be balanced of course.

3) give them picklocks and/or trap finding.  These are conveniences that might make warlocks feel more useful.  I mean, they are magical.

4) boost some of the standard mage spells to be slightly better (more AC from shld, more dodge from blur, etc).  This might mess with other mage classes tho.

Anyway, just some thoughts.  I am glad changes are being made.  If you want to discuss this more, i'd be happy to help think it through.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 06, 2017, 02:44 PM
Quote from: Kakashi on Mar 05, 2017, 08:49 PM
3) changing red enameled scalemail to chain seems like it might only address the warlock at higher levels. Also, for the record, I like that warlocks are chainmail.  Not only is it the only class that uses chain, but i dont think they should have plate or scale based on lore reasons.

We were discussing the lore of the warlock as well, and decided to keep them in chainmail (It is stated the majority of the King's BattleCorps are warlocks!), so they need chain.  Also, we will be keeping them limited to 1-H weapons as they need a free hand to direct their combat spells.

Quote
Here are some thoughts on a few potential ideas, with justification:
1) give them combat 4. I Know a lot of people want to resist this idea, but if you think about it, both DRUID and PRIEST magics have a class with combat 4.  You might say that it is because they have priest/druid-1., but warlocks get mage-2. My response to that is easy:  as far as non-pure magic classes go, non-pure mage is def the weakest.  No heals, no cures, no healing rate, limited, similar combat, etc..

We'll be leaving Warlocks at combat-3 so they are not on par with Rangers and Paladins.  Rangers are still the toughest class to level, so they should have a combat rating above most other classes.

Quote2) I always kind of thought warlocks as a "mage warrior" or "death knight" etc.  With that said, it might be cool if warlocks had a few new spells that "imbue" magics into their weapons. The spell could give bonuses to their wep.  Maybe added elemental damage (ice, fire, lightning, earth, etc). Or maybe it could apply slows, or blinds, etc.  It would have to be balanced of course.

This would require some coding and development on the database side.  Vitoc has given a limited number of things he's willing to fix as far as coding is concerned, so we have to be selective about what we ask him to fix.  This will probably not make it into the list.  However, this is a great idea that could be pursued for Warlocks on WebMud!

Quote3) give them picklocks and/or trap finding.  These are conveniences that might make warlocks feel more useful.  I mean, they are magical.

4) boost some of the standard mage spells to be slightly better (more AC from shld, more dodge from blur, etc).  This might mess with other mage classes tho.

In lieu of this, we are working on some significant spell updates for warlocks.  We're tossing around the idea to make Gypsy's Mage-1, and move all the Mage-2 spells to Mage-1.  Then, leave Warlocks at Mage-2 and move the following spells from Mage-3 to Mage-2:  Wind (party speed), Mass Frenzy, Shimmering Mirage, Wizard Knock ( in lieu of picklocks), and Sleep.  This would make a warlock a more useful party member, since they would have party buffs. 

And yes, this would be a nerf to Gypsy's going from Mage-2 to Mage-1.  Even though they wouldn't lose any of their current spells, they would lose half of their mana.  That would have to be taken into consideration, and either have the Gypsy class start with a mana bonus (which really doesn't make sense) or buff them in other ways to compensate.  I really think that Warlock's should have spells that are not available to Gypsy's though. 
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Kakashi on Mar 06, 2017, 06:33 PM
Awesome, thanks for the reply.

I was thinking a little more about the "imbuing" and perhaps 1 implementation could be "quest weapons."  Similar to how Witchunters have a quest for magebane, or spell casters have a quest for spells, warlocks could have a quest to obtain a weapon that has a particular element.  So maybe three (or more) quests for particular weapons (e.g. fire, ice, lightning) where the weapon would have an "additional" damage effect like the flametongue or sunsword, etc.

Just a thought. 

I do like your idea of moving spells around.  I also firmly believe that adding NEW spells always gets incredibly complicated.  So transitioning some Mage-3 spells to Mage-2 probably would be more in line with balance.

In any case, I am glad they are being addressed :)  Looking forward to it!

Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: rote on Mar 06, 2017, 07:06 PM
Some alternative solutions:

1. Give thieves +10 or +20 accuracy, but keep them at combat 2   
2. Increase all resting hit point gains by 1.5x or 2x (spell healing is very powerful)
3. Double the mana cost of slep and stun
4. Give plate items an accuracy malus, and give scalemail a lesser accuracy malus
5. Create an additional movement speed range in the "none" encumbrance range to be slightly faster than current
6. Create a slight malus to casting spells in between rounds that affect your physical combat. Any will work: slower swing speed, less acc, less crit, less max damage
7. Reduce all damage by a flat 10% (or increase all player hps by 10%, that might be easier though less tailored)
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Mar 06, 2017, 07:26 PM
Quote from: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 06, 2017, 02:44 PM

In lieu of this, we are working on some significant spell updates for warlocks.  We're tossing around the idea to make Gypsy's Mage-1, and move all the Mage-2 spells to Mage-1.  Then, leave Warlocks at Mage-2 and move the following spells from Mage-3 to Mage-2:  Wind (party speed), Mass Frenzy, Shimmering Mirage, Wizard Knock ( in lieu of picklocks), and Sleep.  This would make a warlock a more useful party member, since they would have party buffs. 

And yes, this would be a nerf to Gypsy's going from Mage-2 to Mage-1.  Even though they wouldn't lose any of their current spells, they would lose half of their mana.  That would have to be taken into consideration, and either have the Gypsy class start with a mana bonus (which really doesn't make sense) or buff them in other ways to compensate.  I really think that Warlock's should have spells that are not available to Gypsy's though.

Giving Warlocks all those spells seems like a bit much. They already have several single buffs which are more than enough to make them a useful party member, plus they have the capacity to tank if set up correctly. Warlocks also do formidable damage with spells, particularly with spell mod installed, which is quite useful throughout the game. I agree that part of the answer is Warlock only spells (and Gypsy only ones for that matter too). It just makes sense to give them a few unique buffs and maybe a small kit of items like Gypsies have (swampside camp items, deck of cards).

Here are a few ideas:

Make Scarlet Doublet usable by any alignment
Add some more Warlock-only shields. Currently on GMUD, silvery shield (a level 10 item), is their best offhand.
Improve 1H weapon selection
More unique mana regen options, ideally mixed with other stats Warlock want like ac, accuracy, max dmg, or crit
Improve arcane tome to be useful all the time and not just once a day

New spell examples:
giant strength - +5 str/+5 enc base, +10/+10 at cap with medium mana cost/difficulty, self or targeted
haste - +100 Quickness with high mana cost/difficulty (This abil makes you move faster through rooms),(removes and is removed by all variants of speed/quik) self only, This spell alone would make Warlocks the ideal party leader
barrier - -5/0 AC, +0/4 to 0/7 DR with medium mana cost/difficulty (removes and is removed by magic armor), self only
dissolve bonds - freedom for Warlocks only, higher base level, high mana cost and difficulty (very high ideally)
immolate - room damage over time/debuff 2-4 fire dmg/round base, 3-6 fire dmg/round at cap, -5/0 ac, -5 accuracy, -5 Rfir
mass smite - smite for party, medium mana cost and difficulty (removes and is removed by smite)

I think it's important to stay thematically with what the Warlock is, and feel that new additions like this that would fit with them make a lot of sense.















Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: cytrik on Mar 07, 2017, 04:00 AM
I dont entirely agree with warlock only spells, or gypsy only for that matter... Ultimately a warlock is a branch of the mage spellcraft line... Therefore I dont believe there should ever be a warlock/gypsy spell that a mage itself cannot cast. It just makes sense.
I would apply that theory to any priestly lines also.  I see no reason they should branch away from the mage line.

The scarlet doublet is a good idea. It is such a nice item, but rarely gets used due to being evil only.

I also think the whole off-hand side of things needs looking at. Most classes max out their offhand very early on, with a choice of about 4 items.

The arcane tome would be nice if it was a fixed, mana regen item. Being limited, 1 use a day is kinda rubbish and in the case of a warlock or gypsy, you're better off getting a runed wrist guard for a permanent +5 mana regen.
Even if it's reduced to +15 mana regen, and fixed. Either that, or make the spell like the large silvery cross, where it's unlimited casts, but costs mana.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Mar 08, 2017, 07:59 AM
Quote from: cytrik on Mar 07, 2017, 04:00 AM
I dont entirely agree with warlock only spells, or gypsy only for that matter... Ultimately a warlock is a branch of the mage spellcraft line... Therefore I dont believe there should ever be a warlock/gypsy spell that a mage itself cannot cast. It just makes sense.
I would apply that theory to any priestly lines also.  I see no reason they should branch away from the mage line.

If everything has to trickle down from Mage 3, it makes it a little more difficult and limiting. That being said, I could see mages getting all the spell examples I posted with the exception of the Warlock only version of freedom. I could NOT see Gypsies getting all of those spells.

At some point players have to ask themselves this: Do I want the classes as they've existed for 25 years, or would some changes to make each class valuable in its own way be proper? We can play old fashioned MajorMUD where all the spells trickle down from the level 3 magic class and without Spell Mod essentially whenever we want. We all know how it's 'supposed' to be. That doesn't mean it has to stay that way indefinitely.

As for me, I'm up for trying some new stuff to keep it interesting and exciting. I would rather see some special stuff given to classes that need a boost and need to find a niche than to play within the same old limitations we've had for 25 years plus.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: cytrik on Mar 09, 2017, 03:11 AM
I understand where you're coming from... But improvements can be made without re-creating classes.
If you start delving into making each class more unique to push away from the mage-3 tiers, you start moving away from the core of why alot of people play the game. I realise changes/improvements need to be made but giving each class their own spells seems like over complicating it all.
As I see it ultimately a warlock is a warrior mage. That is a character that is adept at fighting, with mage spells to bolster this.
A mage is a specialised character that has the knowledge to learn the entire line of mage spells culminating in the top tier spells.
To create a spell that is meant to be along the mage spell line, but then to say a mage cannot learn it makes 0 sense to me.

Honestly the way I see it the warlock should be the mage equivalent of a paladin, lesser spells, more combat.
And the gypsy should be more like a missy, better at spells, because of the poorer combat.

I know it's been stated before that they dont want to move warlocks into combat-4, but this is more the zone I see them in. Up the exp table to match if that's the case. A combat-4 mag-1 chainmail wearing warlock..  But honestly you could keep them mag-2 as the only extra spells they get are mete, dfir and colu.
They do need better shields though.


Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 09, 2017, 05:54 PM
Currently discussing additional off-hand items for warlocks, such as main-gauches, etc.  We'll probably be adding some additional items to the game not specifically for warlocks, but usable by them.  It's pretty unanimous that we don't want to add additional spells to the game, nor create spells for non-mag3 classes.  Keep in mind that we're working on the dats for the PVE realm only at this time, and possible future changes to the PVP realm may include some of these ideas mentioned here. 
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Mar 10, 2017, 01:10 PM
Quote from: cytrik on Mar 09, 2017, 03:11 AM
I understand where you're coming from... But improvements can be made without re-creating classes.
If you start delving into making each class more unique to push away from the mage-3 tiers, you start moving away from the core of why alot of people play the game. I realise changes/improvements need to be made but giving each class their own spells seems like over complicating it all.
As I see it ultimately a warlock is a warrior mage. That is a character that is adept at fighting, with mage spells to bolster this.
A mage is a specialised character that has the knowledge to learn the entire line of mage spells culminating in the top tier spells.
To create a spell that is meant to be along the mage spell line, but then to say a mage cannot learn it makes 0 sense to me.

Honestly the way I see it the warlock should be the mage equivalent of a paladin, lesser spells, more combat.
And the gypsy should be more like a missy, better at spells, because of the poorer combat.

I know it's been stated before that they dont want to move warlocks into combat-4, but this is more the zone I see them in. Up the exp table to match if that's the case. A combat-4 mag-1 chainmail wearing warlock..  But honestly you could keep them mag-2 as the only extra spells they get are mete, dfir and colu.
They do need better shields though.

I understand your viewpoint. We can agree to disagree on the spells and that's cool with me. I'd also like to clarify here that I don't think Warlocks suck as is. I also don't think they are correctly played by many or even most people. That being said, they aren't the most exciting class on the list, and that's why I think they need a little love.

As far as combat 4, Warlocks are essentially already combat 4 when you figure in their bless spells like smit, fren, and sped. Making them 4 would have them ending up closer to 5 with all the bless spells.

Just to clarify, a past update done by Deathcow mades glacial blades and barbed tentacles both Mage 2. These help fill out their mid-level casting ability quite well.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: cytrik on Mar 11, 2017, 03:22 AM
Frenzy, smite and speed combined do give a fair advantage, but so does zeal and prowess on combat 4...
The difference being, warlock can still only swing a 1-h weapon, where as ranger and paladin can swing anything.
Not trying to argue, just pointing out the way I see it.
I don't know what everyone else would like to get out of warlocks, but I would love a combat class, with mage spells to stack up against ranger and paladin.
You won't match them for versatility due to not having heals and only having 1-h, but I think it would be a great option.
The other thing is if you were to convert death-touch to a bless/curse spell and not an attack spell, it would create all kinds of extra appeal.

I love the idea of the spell, but it's hard to use as you can't really script with it as the damage is low and the mana is fairly high.
Placing it as a bless/curse type spell would be great.
Wether this is overpowered I don't know, but I like the sound of it.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 11, 2017, 10:56 AM
A warlock with a mid-round cast of DTCH would be pretty awesome, and would definitely put them on par with any class.  However, the ability to smack someone with DFIR during the combat round, then drain an additional 50-70 in between rounds would be a bit too OP.  Especially for mages.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: cytrik on Mar 12, 2017, 04:28 AM
I figured it would be, but death touch as it stands is a fairly useless spell... There's not much you would waste the mana on to do such little damage with a small bump in hps.
You're almost 100% better off destroying the monster and resting afterwards.

Just my thoughts.

Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 12, 2017, 12:20 PM
Which is exactly what i normally do with a mage.  We can look at DTCH and see how we can make it more useful.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Mar 12, 2017, 02:56 PM
Quote from: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 12, 2017, 12:20 PM
Which is exactly what i normally do with a mage.  We can look at DTCH and see how we can make it more useful.

DTCH with Spell Mod is actually quite nice.

LVL Gain Cap: 40 -- (@lvl 40): DrainLife 55 to 100, AffectsLivingOnly

There is a difference between not knowing how to use the spell effectively and the spell sucking.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 12, 2017, 08:33 PM
Quote from: Coarse Horse on Mar 12, 2017, 02:56 PM
DTCH with Spell Mod is actually quite nice.

LVL Gain Cap: 40 -- (@lvl 40): DrainLife 55 to 100, AffectsLivingOnly

There is a difference between not knowing how to use the spell effectively and the spell sucking.

If you're fighting a high-level mob and have to choose between casting a 4-500 damage spell, or healing for 50-60, there's not much of a choice to be made.  Especially when you're taking 100+ damage a round.  I guess you could choose to use DTCH while fighting the kobold king or gnome chieftain, but at higher levels it's pretty much a useless spell.

It has a use when you're running in a party and hoping you're not the person who the mob targets the next round.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 12, 2017, 08:52 PM
Here's a list of the areas we've updated as of today.  Please take a look and let me know if you can think of other areas which are lacking.  The MOD-9 area will still be forthcoming, and we'll be adding lairs and increasing mob exp rates there to make it a more viable scripting location for high-level characters. 


o  Slums: more lairs added/more cultist lairs added
o  Crumbling Tunnels: 34 lairs added
o  Elite orc guards increased from 260 to 400 exp (orc mansion)
o  All sewers upgraded with more lairs
o  Kobold caves increased from 13-24 lairs
o  Deep Jungle
o  Tasloi entry area (in penis area on map)
o  Mermex Caves
o  Umber Hulk Caves
o  Lost City (more 1x Shaman lairs added)
o  Catacombs
o  Gold Mines
o  Quaggoths
o  Redstone Tunnels (Stone Elementals area expanded, lairs added 1x and 2x)
o  More Gladiator/Captain lairs added to northern and southern area of Goblin Caves
o  Dark House caverns lairs increased, and tentacled abom?s around pool added
o  Obsidian Passages (red dragons) lairs increased, timers reduced
o  Mossy Tunnels lairs increased
o  Ogre Camp near Ancient Ruins, lairs increased
o  Dying Grove lairs increased
o  Graveyard lairs increased
o  Added a tunnel system connecting Slums Sewers to Rhudar Sewers, with lots of lairs in between.
o  Room below Newhaven Arena connected to arena
       2nd Arena room in Newhaven.  Room was always there, just never accessible.
o  Earthen Mounds lairs increased
o  Limestone caverns lairs increased
o  Cave worm area under black house upgraded (more lairs)
o  Additional lairs added to Sandbar
o  Added mercenary lair at ?snap chains? area in slums, with boss
       Merc Captain drops wooden box
o  Added Brigand Camp in Dteeth hills, near eastern portion of map, off main road
       Brigand Chief drops wooden box
o  Spectral Knight area, Lairs added
o  Non-rgen rooms fixed in Blackwood Forest area
o  Serpentkin area: Lairs Added
o  Wererat area: Lairs Added
o  Ancient crypt lairs increased, fine broadsword drop decreased from 2% to 1%
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Mar 13, 2017, 04:45 PM
Quote from: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 12, 2017, 08:52 PM
Here's a list of the areas we've updated as of today.  Please take a look and let me know if you can think of other areas which are lacking.  The MOD-9 area will still be forthcoming, and we'll be adding lairs and increasing mob exp rates there to make it a more viable scripting location for high-level characters. 


o  Slums: more lairs added/more cultist lairs added
o  Crumbling Tunnels: 34 lairs added
o  Elite orc guards increased from 260 to 400 exp (orc mansion)
o  All sewers upgraded with more lairs
o  Kobold caves increased from 13-24 lairs
o  Deep Jungle
o  Tasloi entry area (in penis area on map)
o  Mermex Caves
o  Umber Hulk Caves
o  Lost City (more 1x Shaman lairs added)
o  Catacombs
o  Gold Mines
o  Quaggoths
o  Redstone Tunnels (Stone Elementals area expanded, lairs added 1x and 2x)
o  More Gladiator/Captain lairs added to northern and southern area of Goblin Caves
o  Dark House caverns lairs increased, and tentacled abom?s around pool added
o  Obsidian Passages (red dragons) lairs increased, timers reduced
o  Mossy Tunnels lairs increased
o  Ogre Camp near Ancient Ruins, lairs increased
o  Dying Grove lairs increased
o  Graveyard lairs increased
o  Added a tunnel system connecting Slums Sewers to Rhudar Sewers, with lots of lairs in between.
o  Room below Newhaven Arena connected to arena
       2nd Arena room in Newhaven.  Room was always there, just never accessible.
o  Earthen Mounds lairs increased
o  Limestone caverns lairs increased
o  Cave worm area under black house upgraded (more lairs)
o  Additional lairs added to Sandbar
o  Added mercenary lair at ?snap chains? area in slums, with boss
       Merc Captain drops wooden box
o  Added Brigand Camp in Dteeth hills, near eastern portion of map, off main road
       Brigand Chief drops wooden box
o  Spectral Knight area, Lairs added
o  Non-rgen rooms fixed in Blackwood Forest area
o  Serpentkin area: Lairs Added
o  Wererat area: Lairs Added
o  Ancient crypt lairs increased, fine broadsword drop decreased from 2% to 1%

Undermountain Caverns (Enough space for several different areas without altering the main route to AED/Volcano)
Diamond Mines (Both lair setup and exp value)
Old Mines (Lair setup and exp value)
Old Mines (Spider section? remove the stun from spiders which results in permastun on gmud)
Gold Mines
Silver Mines
Rocky Cliffs (The bird area)
Sandy Beach
Slimeworm lairs in Underground Lake/River (they're never scripted because they're way too hard for their exp)
Bronzewood/Ironwood (Lairs are really slow)
Outside Storm Fortress (Single storm giant lairs?)
2 Unused Farmsteads in Blackwood (Contain Scarecrow to the rotworm farm and make mini areas of the other 2?)
Dirt Street in Arlysia (Remove any good align monsters from these lairs, up the lair speed, up the exp for the monsters ie rubicant, sage, sorcerer, myrmidon, etc)
Arlysia Sewers (New area?)
Arlysia City Park (single lairs of vampire lonely traveller #794?)
Arlysia Library
Upper Blackwood (Variety of single monster spawns like darken beast and canimera, but without altering the main thoroughfares to/from Dreadlord or Darken Beast lord or Shadow Master spawns)
Blackwood Garden (perhaps allow black rose to negate the rosebush sleep)
Vampire Mausoleum (Maybe some single spawns around the outside ring of the Labyrinth/Level 3? Might also consider an exp increase for elders just based on raw difficulty)
Black Caves (Mod 3, add lairs off main paths)
Hilltop Fortress (Increase spawn rate/lair amounts)
Slum Rooftops (Make some of the remove rooftops mini script hideouts?)
Dark-Elf City (Remove mages from the southeast "hidden" script area south of Fighter's Guild)
DE Archmage Tower (Change lairs to fast single spawns where backstabbers could make a decent rate)
DE Temple (Raise monster exp, rearrange lair configurations to where they might actually be a usable script area)
DE Prison
Mossy Tunnels (Lairs are extremely slow)
Serpentkin Village (Lairs are very slow)
Necromancer Catacombs (above Mossy)
Smugglers
Slimy Sewers
Oasis #1 & 2(Increase spawn rates/add more lairs)
Volcano (Lairs of only magma golems near Fire Twins?)
Volcano (Increase exp per monster and up lair speed in Lesser Efreetis)
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: xian on Mar 14, 2017, 04:38 PM
I would consider removing the fanatics from the goblin caves. They ruin what is otherwise a great lower level area.

Keep them down in the barracks
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 14, 2017, 04:47 PM
Quote from: Coarse Horse on Mar 13, 2017, 04:45 PM
Undermountain Caverns (Enough space for several different areas without altering the main route to AED/Volcano)
Diamond Mines (Both lair setup and exp value)
Old Mines (Lair setup and exp value)
Old Mines (Spider section? remove the stun from spiders which results in permastun on gmud)
Gold Mines
Silver Mines
Rocky Cliffs (The bird area)
Sandy Beach
Slimeworm lairs in Underground Lake/River (they're never scripted because they're way too hard for their exp)
Bronzewood/Ironwood (Lairs are really slow)
Outside Storm Fortress (Single storm giant lairs?)
2 Unused Farmsteads in Blackwood (Contain Scarecrow to the rotworm farm and make mini areas of the other 2?)
Dirt Street in Arlysia (Remove any good align monsters from these lairs, up the lair speed, up the exp for the monsters ie rubicant, sage, sorcerer, myrmidon, etc)
Arlysia Sewers (New area?)
Arlysia City Park (single lairs of vampire lonely traveller #794?)
Arlysia Library
Upper Blackwood (Variety of single monster spawns like darken beast and canimera, but without altering the main thoroughfares to/from Dreadlord or Darken Beast lord or Shadow Master spawns)
Blackwood Garden (perhaps allow black rose to negate the rosebush sleep)
Vampire Mausoleum (Maybe some single spawns around the outside ring of the Labyrinth/Level 3? Might also consider an exp increase for elders just based on raw difficulty)
Black Caves (Mod 3, add lairs off main paths)
Hilltop Fortress (Increase spawn rate/lair amounts)
Slum Rooftops (Make some of the remove rooftops mini script hideouts?)
Dark-Elf City (Remove mages from the southeast "hidden" script area south of Fighter's Guild)
DE Archmage Tower (Change lairs to fast single spawns where backstabbers could make a decent rate)
DE Temple (Raise monster exp, rearrange lair configurations to where they might actually be a usable script area)
DE Prison
Mossy Tunnels (Lairs are extremely slow)
Serpentkin Village (Lairs are very slow)
Necromancer Catacombs (above Mossy)
Smugglers
Slimy Sewers
Oasis #1 & 2(Increase spawn rates/add more lairs)
Volcano (Lairs of only magma golems near Fire Twins?)
Volcano (Increase exp per monster and up lair speed in Lesser Efreetis)

Some of these areas have been completed (gold mines, dark-elf prison, mossy tunnels, a few others).  All of the MOD-9 areas will be updated, to include adding more lairs, increasing exp rates, and reducing lair timers.  We've already nerfed FRAIL in this area, as well.  Northern forest is a good area to update, but if we add more lairs and/or reduce timers, I think we would have to reduce cash drops as well since this area can produce 1 runic+ per day, as is.

The twin oasis' in desert are a great area for upgrading!  Will take care of this one tonight, and all the others you mentioned as time allows.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 14, 2017, 04:49 PM
Quote from: xian on Mar 14, 2017, 04:38 PM
I would consider removing the fanatics from the goblin caves. They ruin what is otherwise a great lower level area.

Keep them down in the barracks

You think the fanatics are more difficult than the shamans/warlocks?
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: xian on Mar 15, 2017, 08:40 AM
It seems that way, but I might be 100% mistaken
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Redhawk on Mar 15, 2017, 10:10 AM
First, off you are all amazeballs for putting together these changes. I'm excited to see how it all plays out.

- Will you be providing updated Mega paths for the new areas? Updated Dats?
- Anyone willing to take on the task of updating the dats for MME?
- Thoughts about putting in the gang house stores?
- Any chance we'll get access to custom statlines again?
- Suggestion to make Slaver Leader instant regen (0 xp? lower it)  for talisman
- Lower room illu penalty in white dragons. Too restrictive.
- Pipe dream: Add loyal invulnerability item that lasts 60 seconds 1x/day but disables attacks for easier corpse retrieval
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 15, 2017, 11:22 AM
Quote from: Redhawk on Mar 15, 2017, 10:10 AM
First, off you are all amazeballs for putting together these changes. I'm excited to see how it all plays out.

- Will you be providing updated Mega paths for the new areas? Updated Dats?

I'm sure WinterHawk is all over this!

Quote- Anyone willing to take on the task of updating the dats for MME?

This will be provided once all updates have been completed.

Quote- Thoughts about putting in the gang house stores?

This could be one of the "Top 5" things we push to Vitoc for coding updates.

Quote- Any chance we'll get access to custom statlines again?

We only have 5 things we can push to Vitoc for updating.  This will probably not make the list.

Quote- Suggestion to make Slaver Leader instant regen (0 xp? lower it)  for talisman

Can look at this, but you know there is a route you can take to Dark Elves that does not require a talisman now, right?

Quote- Lower room illu penalty in white dragons. Too restrictive.

Will look at this as well.

Quote- Pipe dream: Add loyal invulnerability item that lasts 60 seconds 1x/day but disables attacks for easier corpse retrieval

Just ask WinterHawk to help you get your gear back, he's always looking for a good DP recovery run!
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: cytrik on Mar 16, 2017, 05:47 AM
Quote- Pipe dream: Add loyal invulnerability item that lasts 60 seconds 1x/day but disables attacks for easier corpse retrieval

I'm sure that won't get used for any other purpose that might adversely affect gameplay for other users? heh
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Vile on Mar 16, 2017, 06:04 PM
This is the fantastic. Keep it up.

Just off the top of my head:

- Hard trainer (seems to be bugged in gmud but it's a flawed concept anyway)
- Ozrinom / Mausoleum is way too hard compared to the other 5th quests
- Regen rooms in vortex (more negate fear items?)
- Some low level room script areas for the poor mages and druids. Leveling them is not fun.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Redhawk on Mar 17, 2017, 07:14 AM
Quote from: cytrik on Mar 16, 2017, 05:47 AM
I'm sure that won't get used for any other purpose that might adversely affect gameplay for other users? heh
Heh yea I guess so. Kind of cheeze mode. Then again we have alignment changes and /port commands. Would be just another tool
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Mar 17, 2017, 12:18 PM
Quote from: Vile on Mar 16, 2017, 06:04 PM
This is the fantastic. Keep it up.

Just off the top of my head:

- Hard trainer (seems to be bugged in gmud but it's a flawed concept anyway)
- Ozrinom / Mausoleum is way too hard compared to the other 5th quests
- Regen rooms in vortex (more negate fear items?)
Quote from: Redhawk on Mar 17, 2017, 07:14 AM
Heh yea I guess so. Kind of cheeze mode. Then again we have alignment changes and /port commands. Would be just another tool

The problem with these kinds of requests is that once everybody gets their pet requests in to make the game easier, these changes combined would make the game far too easy. There is nowhere you can die in the game that can't be recovered from. There is no quest or training that is too hard to complete. And yes, the hard trainer works correctly on GMUD now. Go play 1-75 on MajorMUD, then come back to GMUD and see how much easier and more forgiving GMUD already is compared to the real deal.

Structural changes to the game make sense, ie tweaking classes, revamping dead/empty areas, building out weapon selection and spell kits. But nerfing and making easier every little item that each person finds difficult is not a sensible path to take in the long run.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: xian on Mar 17, 2017, 01:37 PM
Wait. How do you get to dark elves without talisman/portal
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Redhawk on Mar 17, 2017, 02:20 PM
Hah. I hear that @Coarse Horse. Just thinking out loud. You make a good point. Suggestion revoked.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 17, 2017, 05:47 PM
Quote from: Vile on Mar 16, 2017, 06:04 PM

- Hard trainer (seems to be bugged in gmud but it's a flawed concept anyway)
- Ozrinom / Mausoleum is way too hard compared to the other 5th quests
- Regen rooms in vortex (more negate fear items?)
- Some low level room script areas for the poor mages and druids. Leveling them is not fun.

Winterhawk has already devised a quest for a negate fear item.  We have the first part done already. 

All of MOD-9 will also be getting re-worked, we'll take a look at Oz and the Maus.

Already created some good room script areas for low levels, including a couple of small new areas, and some old areas re-worked.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 17, 2017, 05:49 PM
Quote from: xian on Mar 17, 2017, 01:37 PM
Wait. How do you get to dark elves without talisman/portal

In the Black House section of MegaMud paths, there is a "fungus forest, hole to fungus tunnels" path.  Go to the room, go hole, then go to Sleazy Shopkeeper from there....no talisman needed.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Mar 17, 2017, 06:48 PM
Quote from: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 17, 2017, 05:47 PM
All of MOD-9 will also be getting re-worked, we'll take a look at Oz and the Maus.

I hope you guys don't gut the Mausoleum too much! It's one of the only places in the game where even experienced players can feel some anxiety as they travel through for the first time that push. It's certainly harder with Spell Mod, but that difficulty could largely be offset by raising vampire exp values.

The Oz fight can be harrowing, but that is mostly because of how GMUD limits what room spells work on the vampire elders. This might be an interesting area to focus on if you were to change anything about Ozrinom's room. Simply lowering their SpellImmu to allow spirit horde and earthquake to hit them would be a nerf to the boss (and elders in his room) without changing the raw difficulty of the encounter.

There is also something to be said for "legendarily difficult" areas. I see a lot of requests and plans to make things easier, and while I get that, I hope there are still going to be hard areas where expert level players can dwell...especially ones where the exp or item drop rewards match the difficulty!
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 18, 2017, 01:14 PM
Quote from: Coarse Horse on Mar 17, 2017, 06:48 PM
I hope you guys don't gut the Mausoleum too much! It's one of the only places in the game where even experienced players can feel some anxiety as they travel through for the first time that push.

There is also something to be said for "legendarily difficult" areas. I see a lot of requests and plans to make things easier, and while I get that, I hope there are still going to be hard areas where expert level players can dwell...especially ones where the exp or item drop rewards match the difficulty!

We have no intention of making any area "easier", especially the whole MOD-9 area.  While we did nerf the "FRAIL" in Blackwood, this was a bit extreme in it's default state.  We didn't get rid of it, just made it a little more realistic and manageable.  Our goal with MOD-9 is to make it more worthwhile to script there, while not reducing the difficulty.  No nerf's to mobs will occur, only an increase in the exp values for some.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Blake on Mar 20, 2017, 09:53 PM
Quote from: Coarse Horse on Mar 17, 2017, 06:48 PM
I hope you guys don't gut the Mausoleum too much! It's one of the only places in the game where even experienced players can feel some anxiety as they travel through for the first time that push. It's certainly harder with Spell Mod, but that difficulty could largely be offset by raising vampire exp values.

The Oz fight can be harrowing, but that is mostly because of how GMUD limits what room spells work on the vampire elders. This might be an interesting area to focus on if you were to change anything about Ozrinom's room. Simply lowering their SpellImmu to allow spirit horde and earthquake to hit them would be a nerf to the boss (and elders in his room) without changing the raw difficulty of the encounter.

There is also something to be said for "legendarily difficult" areas. I see a lot of requests and plans to make things easier, and while I get that, I hope there are still going to be hard areas where expert level players can dwell...especially ones where the exp or item drop rewards match the difficulty!

I'm going to second CH here on this.  Maus is pretty tough.  I've had a lvl 70 pally rounded in a room or two a couple of times... but I like it. 

Also wait a second - the hard trainer was fixed?
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 21, 2017, 08:17 AM
Quote from: Blake on Mar 20, 2017, 09:53 PM
Also wait a second - the hard trainer was fixed?

Apparently this was taken care of awhile ago.  We can verify when we put up a test realm.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Blake on Mar 31, 2017, 12:05 AM
Quote from: Jumpin Jack Flash on Mar 21, 2017, 08:17 AM
Apparently this was taken care of awhile ago.  We can verify when we put up a test realm.

Why don't you verify by agreeing to teleport people out of the room they get stuck in?

This hasn't been fixed.

There's a key

that
does
not
drop

Seriously.

Try to do the quest. 
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Winterhawk on Mar 31, 2017, 07:43 AM
The hard trainer does work. I have personally done all 3 paths to completion. There was a problem with the tree/azrandinom boss that was fixed so t works now.The only issue now is the change is bugged and only happens once per day. That's on the list to fix along with some other changes to the area.

Winterhawk
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Redhawk on Apr 05, 2017, 02:55 PM
This may have been caught already but I suggest dropping LOTH's regen timer to 24 hours and lowering the XP. I respect that certain bosses fall under people's scripting routes, but right now there's no way to track and get a shot at this guy. A week is too long. There are equally tough bosses (even roamers) in Mod9 with 10x less timers and still good rewards. Tnx for the consideration.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Greater on Apr 06, 2017, 05:45 AM
Quote from: Redhawk on Apr 05, 2017, 02:55 PM
This may have been caught already but I suggest dropping LOTH's regen timer to 24 hours and lowering the XP. I respect that certain bosses fall under people's scripting routes, but right now there's no way to track and get a shot at this guy. A week is too long. There are equally tough bosses (even roamers) in Mod9 with 10x less timers and still good rewards. Tnx for the consideration.

Do you realize how much more dangerous the vortex would be for about 3/4 of the game length with this change? Not a good idea. Script the wastelands if you need to catch his timer.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: rote on May 02, 2017, 11:00 AM
I kinda like the LOTH being a stressor every day. The black wastelands means you can instantaneously travel very far distances of your choosing with relative ease. I am interested in the 24-hour LOTH not to farm, but to act as the black knight to king arthur's bridge.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Hurricane Omega on May 02, 2017, 06:53 PM
Speaking of the Black Wasteland and it's older brother the Negative Power Plane, what about replacing the PVE ports with portals right next to or even in the major towns with the level 20 restriction for the Black Wasteland for Silvermere, Khaz, and Rhudnar and the level 40 restriction for Lost and add one for an area in Mod 9? 

This would mean a lot of walking until level 20, and remove the port command as an escape hatch, but are those all that bad?

Just a thought to kick around.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: sombrus on May 09, 2017, 10:33 PM
Scrap all that nonsense about increasing gypsy, thief, and missy combat values. It's antithetical to what these classes are. There's no sane reason for a run of the mill thief to fight as well as a highly trained Ninja.

Here's what you do:

Thieves maintain the significant boosts to BS damage, with a bonus to dodge. Their chart remains 80%. Thieves should be crafty first strikers who are hard to hit, hence the dodge.

Gypsies don't get the bonus to backstab but do get the bonus to dodge. Their chart is reduced to 160%. Gypsies aren't especially well known for their backstabbing but they share a similar trait in being crafty and hard to hit.

Missionaries don't get the bonus to backstab or or dodge but do receive a bonus to magic resistance and their hp goes up to 5-9. Their chart is 160%. While missionaries aren't known for either craftiness or backstabbiness they *are* known for being tough and their faith protects them.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Macro on May 22, 2017, 03:27 PM
My thoughts on current and potential changes:

Bard need the lower exp tables, but they also need 1 mana regen/sec. You always think of bard as constantly singing not sitting around waiting for the energy to do so. This would also help to differentiate them from other casters.

Witchunters need +damage (I would guess 3). They are supposed to be elite and they don't feel like it.

Warriors need a higher exp chart, maybe 110%

Mystics need a new attack beyond jump kick.

For missionaries I would say +mana regen and +backstab accuracy coupled with a lower exp table would be a big help.

Limits are outdated, the challenge comes in tracking down the best items for you, not being out of luck because someone beat you to it.

Thief should be king of backstabs, they should be +accuracy, +min/max damage

Half-orcs are terrible, I recommend doing something unique such as -crits and dodge and +enc and max damage

Humans are a snoozefest. I say give them a small amount of innate quickness.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: Jumpin Jack Flash on May 22, 2017, 07:06 PM
Quote from: Macro on May 22, 2017, 03:27 PM
Humans are a snoozefest. I say give them a small amount of innate quickness.

The humans who inhabit the PVP realm can be somewhat interesting.
Title: Re: List of Current Changes - Please review/comment
Post by: IllIlIIllIl on Feb 09, 2007, 04:49 AM
The reset is not going to happen. Gmud is dead. Wave.