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Author Topic: Follow  (Read 2137 times)

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Offline Gardner Denver

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Re: Follow
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 10:04:33 am »
Well we know that it's not correct. Gard may be correct in what he thinks, I have thought the same thing. Each time you come across and enemy, it will roll that "should I follow" formula then does the same thing on the next player but it still remembers you going through. My question is: If you have a Mage and you make a day of it to go around and clear all the stacked rooms... is that technically abusing a bug or is that a random act of kindness? My second toon is going to be a Mage is why I am even asking this question. I want a roomer anyways, but it will also be nice to not get dropped in a room full of mobs while I'm afk.

So... would that be abusing a bug or no?

Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not.  Doing both is a no no.

Offline Coarse Horse

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Re: Follow
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 02:13:48 pm »
Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not.  Doing both is a no no.

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Offline Stalkerr

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Re: Follow
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 02:37:12 pm »
In mmud, there is a mob_has_target routine..which is used for a lot of different things and its far from perfect..its has exploitable bugs in it.  I don't know what other people called this, but I called it perfect walking, where you'd manipulate the system and be able to move from one place to another without seeing a combat round and leave monsters in w/e room you desired.  I don't think its worth emulating mmud's system so much that these type of behavior works on gmud, but there are a few things we could pick up.  A monster in mmud only moves when it has a target.  If its target is not in the current room, it will do nothing if there are 0 exits, leave the room if there is 1 exit, if there are 2 or more exits it will check to see if the player was in their current room in the players last 20 rooms, if it was it will roll follow% and on pass follow the players path if the player was not in the monsters room(in his last 20 movements) the monster will take a random exit.  This behavior continues until the monster no longer has a target.  A monster will lose there target after 6 unanswered round.  The 6 round counter resets if combat fires or if the monster sees the player after its move(or if when it chks to see if it moves the player is in the current room).  When it comes to following there are 3 types of monsters. Solo, Leader, and Follower.  Solo monsters always make their own follow rolls and always act according to standard movement rules.  Leader and Followers are special cases if they are in the same room as each other.  Followers don't roll on their own and instead they use the leader's roll to decide if they follow basically the leader rolls like a solo would and if any leader leaves the room, the followers go with him...any time a leader leaves the room..followers go with them.  If there are two or more leaders only one leader needs to make this roll for followers to go so if one of the leaders fails it will stay behind but all of the followers and the leader that past will go.  Monsters can actually have multiple chances to move per round.  Any time their target leaves the current room they can attempt to follow and when the monster movement phase happens which is 2 second after the combat round fires.

The way monsters acquire targets is kinda bugged in mmud, which is why attack last works.

Offline Silvix

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Re: Follow
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 04:09:50 pm »
Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not.  Doing both is a no no.

Ok good. I already knew that purposely stacking them is against the rules was just asking about clearing them.
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Offline Torque

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Re: Follow
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2014, 05:02:25 pm »
Stacking the rooms is a bug, being kind enough to cllear them is not.  Doing both is a no no.

I can see how stacking a room is a 'bug', but how is clearing them a bug?

As far as DC's exhaustive explanation, it seems like a lot of coding, trial and error, but fairly decent. Would it be easier to just swipe the follow % clean after every room? 90% to follow east, fired. e^M 90% follow north, no fire, end. Seems like you could code a more 'realistic' methodology using what you got

Offline Vitoc

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Re: Follow
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 05:05:48 pm »
My dad passed away on Saturday morning.  It's been a roller coaster of flights, driving, emotions, and grieving.  I'm flying out again tomorrow for the service on Friday morning, but likely won't get anything done this weekend.  Give me a week or two please and I'll take another stab at this.


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Offline Torque

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Re: Follow
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 05:09:12 pm »
.... I fear that day Vitoc. You have my deepest sympathies

Offline Silvix

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Re: Follow
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 07:24:32 pm »
My dad passed away on Saturday morning.  It's been a roller coaster of flights, driving, emotions, and grieving.  I'm flying out again tomorrow for the service on Friday morning, but likely won't get anything done this weekend.  Give me a week or two please and I'll take another stab at this.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss, Vitoc.

I can see how stacking a room is a 'bug', but how is clearing them a bug?

As far as DC's exhaustive explanation, it seems like a lot of coding, trial and error, but fairly decent. Would it be easier to just swipe the follow % clean after every room? 90% to follow east, fired. e^M 90% follow north, no fire, end. Seems like you could code a more 'realistic' methodology using what you got

He didn't say clearing them is a bug... He is saying that intentionally stacking rooms just to clear them (and make massive exp doing so) is against the rules.
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Offline Stalkerr

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Re: Follow
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2014, 09:44:21 pm »
I can see how stacking a room is a 'bug', but how is clearing them a bug?

As far as DC's exhaustive explanation, it seems like a lot of coding, trial and error, but fairly decent. Would it be easier to just swipe the follow % clean after every room? 90% to follow east, fired. e^M 90% follow north, no fire, end. Seems like you could code a more 'realistic' methodology using what you got
The only reason I'd really care about how this works specifically is because this follow system is vital to properly emulating normal type room rgen.  If we don't want normal type rgen, or want to do something then it probably doesnt matter to much.  Also if the game was keeping track of monsters with a target we could probably use that same systemt to implement scatter items.

Offline Torque

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Re: Follow
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 10:10:03 pm »
He didn't say clearing them is a bug... He is saying that intentionally stacking rooms just to clear them (and make massive exp doing so) is against the rules.


 Ahh, I see it now! I don't know if I agree that that is an exploit. You still have to survive a round possibly of a room full of baddies, and also you have to figure out how to collect them into one room. If you write a script to make that happen, then I think you deserve to make it automated, since you have the proper defense capability and offense capability in the first place On top of that, regens are limited anyway -- you can only get so much from an area, regardless if you killed 300 giant war dogs in one blow. Also, can you imagine the field day I would have on a PVP realm and I saw someone doing this?

... this follow system is vital to properly emulating normal type room rgen. 
I think 'vital' is the incorrect word here since regen and follow technically have nothing to do with each other. Blending the topics: I have to make assumptions, because 'normal type room rgen' is ambiguous. You are saying that if monsters get drug off their path and away from their lair, rgen will not be 'normal type'. This I have to disagree with because if you kill those monsters, they will still spawn in their original lair.

Offline Stalkerr

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Re: Follow
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 07:40:20 am »
I think 'vital' is the incorrect word here since regen and follow technically have nothing to do with each other. Blending the topics: I have to make assumptions, because 'normal type room rgen' is ambiguous. You are saying that if monsters get drug off their path and away from their lair, rgen will not be 'normal type'.
I can't tell if you are being a troll or just outright have no idea what you are talking about.

Offline Torque

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Re: Follow
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 10:48:39 am »
Oh, I can see why you are saying things that don't make sense now, you simply don't understand. I'm sure you've got to  have some friends that can help explain it to you, right

Offline Coarse Horse

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Re: Follow
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 10:51:12 am »
Weren't you two pals at one point? /popcorn

Offline y2duhh

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Re: Follow
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 11:11:45 am »
they are too much alike to be friends, the difference being DC is actually an intelligent guy he just wants people to tell him it too much. Torque is not intelligent and usually full of bullshit but still begs for everyones approval.

Offline Stalkerr

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Re: Follow
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 12:15:26 pm »
There isn't really any reason to derail this convo any further.. so to recap

Current follow system was a nice idea but either has some coding errors or wasn't properly thought out or a combination of the two.  So it needs to be reworked.  Its my suggestion that this is done parallel to normal type room rgen if we want ours to appear to function the same as majormud because the two are deeply embedded within each other.  Its possible that we'll need to rework how monsters decide current targets in order to do this, which may mean we can/should look at how player can manipulate this system for tanking purposes.